A Heretics Scream
Any society at any point in time does not treat those that question and criticize it’s whims , rituals and assumptions in a very humane manner.
Such a person is usually called a heretic and by doing that they are at once subject to the most severe and barbaric punishments that the society can inflict.
If you have any doubts about that statement- just think of the following intellectuals and thinker-
1. Mazdak
2. Mansoor Hussain Hallaj
3. Giordano Bruno.
If you do not know what happened to them- well here it is.
Mazdak had molten lead poured into his ears and then he was killed in a very brutal manner.
Hallaj was skinned alive by the orders of the King of the times at the insistence of the religious authorities.
Giordano Bruno was burnt alive -(gagged)- after being kept in a dungeon deep in the bowls of the earth for 8 years in shackles. When the verdict was passed on him- he was gagged and his face was covered in an iron mask for the walk from the Jury room to the center of the square where he was burnt alive.
So at the risk which is obvious- here are some questions that you might have been thinking about sometimes but have on purpose not brought to the attention of those that might not like it. See , you do not want to be branded a Heretic for obvious reasons.
So here we go
Whether we like it or not- the FACT is that in places like Pakistan,Iran,and other NON-Arab Muslim countries- the people were colonized and where attempts were made to quash and suppress the local languages by the invaders- using the edict- ” Arabic is God’s language “.
We are taught that when Islam spread initially by invasion of Iran , Central Asia, North Africa and the Indian Subcontinent by the Arab Muslim armies that those guys were real gentlemen interested in spreading justice, equality and the word of God after all the killing had stopped on the field of battle.
Would any honest thinking person who has come across the Arabs of to day would buy that?
Oh ! I can just hear the MOB saying that there is no evidence and where is the proof. The very fact that we PRAY to GOD in ARABIC ONLY tells you all you wish to know-( assuming you are looking at this in a fair and just manner)-
Let us talk about what actually did take place.
What the Muslim Arabs did to anyone who stood up to them-
Well let me just name a well-known incident called Karbala.Here was one of their own-( aristocracy) Imam Hussain who simply questioned the legitimacy of a morally corrupt person to rule. For those of you who might try to sidetrack this as the doings of one evil king-( Yazeed) try to look into the doings of the rest of them and I am sure you will find many instances of the same type.
Let me also name another person who is well known as a dissenter- Mansoor Hussain Hallaj.
Get the true benevolent picture of the Muslim Arab colonization of the non-Arab lands!
A great deal is talked about the Spanish Inquisition and the severe oppression of the NON- Catholics by the Roman Catholic Church of the times.
As Muslims- do we EVER talk about the inhumanity dished out to those that found themselves on the receiving end of the Islamic Regimes / No we do not.
Oh those great days of the so-called “Golden Islamic Period” were the days of benevolence and kindness personified for everyone.
We will not burden you with the doings of Qutaiba Bin Muslin in Central Asia or Hajjaj bin Yousuf or Haroon Ur Rasheed. If you are interested you can read it yourself.
Let us just take the example of Music, literature and poetry of the indigenous people.
Music as we know WAS forbidden. So what happened to the musicians? Well they had to destroy their musical instruments or hide them where they could not be found.
Since the official language was Arabic – immediately the society was divided into the elite who spoke Arabic and the not so elite who did not.
This is an established historical fact.
Of course the non- Arabic speakers could not read or understand the Holy book since it was in Arabic.
Well to take advantage of their innate attraction to MAGIC- they were made to learn the Holy Book by Rote like parrots and thus came the idea today that if you have a problem you call in the professional Quran reciters and your problem will go away ! Well, “ you can ONLY read the Quran and offer your prayers in the Holy language –you guessed it was Arabic again.
They did not know or understand what the Holy book said.
Later a bunch of people appeared who had learned Arabic and had become so-called “ scholars” and they started writing interpretations of the “ difficult” Arabic of the Quran for the benefit of the non- Arabic speaking masses.
And in order to gain importance they told everyone that their version of the interpretation was the REAL one.
Let us face it- the invasion by the Arabic speaking Muslim armies was pure and simple a colonization on grand scale where the aim was not only to “ spread” Islam but to completely change and transform the indigenous cultures by attempting to decimate them altogether.
Shall we use the term INTELLECTUAL ETHNIC CLEANSING ” for this !
And how do you do that effectively?
Demand that they pray in YOUR language and conduct business in your language.
Once the language is taken care of – the rest will follow.
Of course the locals rebelled- sort of.
Mahmood Ghaznavi asked Firdausi to write the Book of Kings- (Shahnama) in PURE Pehlavi and was penalized for having used ONE word of Arabic in 60,000 quartets!
The musical instruments were hidden and played in secrecy
At the risk of being labeled a Heretic and whatever follows from that, I have decided to put forth a few questions for the Pakistani Muslim society in particular and here they are.
1.What exactly is the need for having so many mosques?
It seems that each neighbor hood has many mosques being built every day.
It is my understanding that the Islamic idea was to have one mosque in each neighborhood where the Muslims would go to offer prayers 5 times a day.
Then there would be a Friday mosque where once w week the Muslims of different neighborhoods would go for the Friday prayers and while their meet and discuss the issues of the community. Do the Muslims do that today ? Absolutely NOT. The Mosques have become a place of the ritual of prayer- not a place of community welfare discourse.
And then twice a year on the 2 I’d the Muslims would go to the I’d Gah where the larger community would pray and discuss the issues of interest to the larger community.
Is the building of many Mosques a sort of substitute to avoid making your life ethical and pure in reality as required by Islam?
Would it be unislamic to donate that money used for building so many mosques to the poor people for their and their children’s educationand .
(Of course once a mosque is built, you cannot do anything about it and if you did then may God Almighty defend you against the ire of the very Pious Muslims!)
2. If the Prophet-( PBUH)_ and Bilal did OK with the Azan with their own voice- then pray tell me what is the purpose of the Azan being given on umpteen loudspeakers every where by today’s Mu’azins.
3. Let us talk about the issue of 4 marriages . Why can’t our religious leaders- (and political too)- just say in a simple sentence that more than one wife at the same time are prohibited.
End of story.
Why do they hide behind all kinds of shenanigans to justify their desire to continue with the charade that a man might have four wives if he can treat them equally- (which he cannot)-?
I know this is going to rattle the self proclaimed protectors of Islam and they will question if I am a “ True “ Muslim or not.
Rest assured I am a Muslim though perhaps a little less true than most.
4. Great deal of hoopla is made by Muslims when it comes to eating meat- esp.; when they live in the Western countries.
The western countries require either stunning or shooting the animal in its brain and then it is bled to death. The fact is that the animal is KILLED.
In other words the animal’s heart is still beating when it’s throat blood vessels are cut.
The pious Muslims that I know insist that until and unless the animal is conscious and feeling the pain of it’s throat being cut-
(With the recitation of God is Great)- it is not Hallal.
So let me get this straight- it is the pain and fear of death in the animal, which makes it Hallal along with the recitation of God, is Great.
Do you guys really believe that?
I myself am not much for rituals- so to me this whole hallal business is just a ritual, which is supposed to help a certain number of butchers- (in the West)- make money, which they would not be able to if we dispensed with this.
And why is it that the Hallal meat is more expensive too and always of lesser quality.
And while we are on the subject of eating meat- how can anyone support and justify the ritual mass slaughter of animals of all kinds in Mecca during the HAJ when over 6 million animals are killed- for what ? For a ritual.
Imagine the cost of each animal- could’nt everyone just donate the same money towards the betterment of the poor people of say Pakistan. Is any thought given to alleviating this problem ? I doubt it.
And I am not even counting the cost of travel and hotel, taxis etc that all these Hajis have to spend to get there. Imagine if the Hindus did something like that- we would be laughing and scolding them for spending all that money to go and pray somewhere far away and then sacrifice cows, lambs, camels and goats en mass to seek salvation.
If the goats or sheep or the cows and camels could provide salvation why would’nt they save themselves from the knives of the great mass of the Muslim believers.
5. Oh! Now we come to the interesting part.
Why are we told that we should have as many kids as we can and increase the number of Muslims in this world and that is God’s edict?
The pious Muslims tell me that.
Do these people ever think that to have a baby- the woman who carries the pregnancy for 9 months is subjected to great risk to her life in addition to pain , discomfort , nausea , vomiting etc not to count the pain of labor?
With every pregnancy- this risk to life of the woman increases many fold in Pakistan.
And that is if you had the first class medical care.
Add to that the dirty Midwife that is usually the one who does the job in most places- the risk is increased even more.
Oh if you have any doubts- just go to any obstetrics ward in a big city hospital such as Civil Hospital in Karachi and you will know that I AM telling the truth.
6. And just imagine the person (woman) who risks her life each time she has a pregnancy because of her pleasure/ entertainment seeking husband- is also given the normal outcome of the husband’s stress in the form of beatings etc.-(Doubter please read Human Rights of Pakistan report 1996-)-
7. Oh yes Children! The result of that biological activity called SEX, which happens, in dark corners of the house under hush hush conditions.
That -many children- it is said that God Almighty will takes care of them since it is him who brings them into this world.
How is He supposed to provide for their nurture and education?
I had thought that it was the responsibility of the parents-
sorry the Husband since in Pakistan the wife merely functions as an incubator of the man’s seed in addition to being a cook, a cleaning woman, a washer woman etc etc.
8. Before you start quoting this or that- look at what is happening.
The Mullahs in the Madrassahs are taking care of these children.
And you expect them to grow up to be artists, scientists, engineers and lawyers and doctors!
Sorry the Mullah is not in the business of education- he is in the business of CLONING.
Yes making clones of himself who listen to him and no one else.
They will have more mosques, more madrassahs and more Loud Speaker enhanced Azans.
That is your future like it or not.
The fact is we are choking ourselves with too many people at a rate which is Disaster that is looming – sort of like a tseunami that you can see coming.
and all these people were once kids born to someone.
Did that someone ever think about what sort of world we are going to leave them in or is that also the responsibility of God.
There is a lot more but certain things must be left for your imagination.
Islam to me – is an egalitarian system of social justice- not a collection of rituals . Islam is not a system put forth so that the ” ISLAMIC” or Non-Islamic capitalists can exploit and use the downtrodden for their so-called legitimate-” Profit “.
Islam is feeling for and caring for those that are unable to care for themselves.
Islam directs the building of a society where human treatment of human beings is the first requirement .
And what do we have as Muslims today ?
We have rituals, and rituals and rituals which have been made requirements .
Should we or can we do something about it ?
I do not think so.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 am and is filed under Articles. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
shimatoree
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
“Would any honest thinking person who has come across the Arabs of to day would buy that?”
So in your opinion there is no difference between Abu Bakr SiddiqRA, Umer Bin KhattabRA, Ali Ibne Talib RA and todays arabs…. I wonder people would buy that either….
“I do not think so but that is an opinion and let us talk about what actually happened. What the Muslim Arabs did to anyone who stood up to them-Well let me suggest a well-known incident called Karbala.”
Didnt both the parties belong to Muslim Arabs? Even later when Hajjaj bin Yousaf invaded mecca and stonned the Baitullah, and killed Abdullah Bin Zubair RA… both of them were Arabs….
SO depicting it as Arab verses Non-Arabs… or all the rest… doesnt seem very clever…
“”Let us also take example of Music, literature and poetry of the indigenous people. Music as we know WAS forbidden. So what happened to the musicians? Well they had to destroy their musical instruments or hide them where they could not be found.”"
It is supposedly forbidden for Muslims… so if you chose to be a Muslim… you let it go… if you dont … you dont have to follow…as simple as that
“Since the official language was Arabic – immediately the society was divided into the elite who spoke Arabic and the not so elite who did not.”
Is there a proof for that claim… as even Arabic has several dialects, which are very very different from each other…
“Of course the non- Arabic speakers could not read or understand the Holy book.”
I dont understand… why is all the hue and cry when Muslims try learning Arabic.. whiile you and I take pride in having learnt English”
“Therefore they did not know what the Holy book said. Well, “ you can ONLY read the Quran and offer your prayers in the Holy language –you guessed it was Arabic.”
So you are suggesting prayers should be in Urdu? or Englsih or French?
“Let us face it- the invasion by the Arabic speaking Muslim armies was pure and simple a colonization on grand scale where the aim was not only to “ spread” Islam but to completely change and transform the indigenous cultures by attempting to decimate them altogether.”
The indigenous cultures are still alive… that puts your argument in doubt..
“And how do you do that effectively?
Demand that they pray in YOUR language and conduct business in your language. Once the language is taken care of – the rest will follow.”
So you are suggesting prayers should be in Urdu? or Englsih or French?
Could you please clarify these issues so that we can move forward to your questions…
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
kindly ignore the spellings and grammatical errors…. stoned, versus, while and some others…
September 23rd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Nida e Sehar
1. Your first point is without merit. It would be like saying that the behaviour of all the Indians today can be taken for the behaviour of Gandhi’s non violence or the decency of the many Hindus and Sikhs who put their own life in danger to help their friends amongst the Muslims during the partition of India in 1947.
2. Your second point on Karbala is less than candid. I would point out that if that is what they did to another Muslim Arab- ( grandson of the Prophet) one has to shudder to think what the non- Arabs had to endure.
3. The division into Arabs and Non-Arabs during and after the Arab conquests is a very well known historic fact. Just Google it and you will be educated.
4. People learn English that is true today.
But did the English insist that you pray to your God in English ? NO
Did the English force everyone to acknowledge that the Language of the Angels is English only and that God prefers English ? NO.
And the English did follow the original dictum of the Arabs- when MacCauley said that the best way to ” educate” the natives was to force them to study English rather than Farsi or Pushto or Sanskrit etc – by making official language of the GOVT. English.
5. The indigenous cultures do survive in a truncated and amputated form INSPITE of what was IMPOSED and FORCED on them. If you have any doubts about my point of view- just look at the very tolerant and compassionate approach of those that are acting in the name of PURE ISLAM-( of course imported from the same land that brought the original)- namely Saudi Arabia.
6. If the Muslim people of Pakistan are to go anywhere- they must not be made to feel guilty because they do not do this or that as dictated by the vestiges of a colonila invasion that took place 1300 years ago.
The mere fact that someone prays in Arabic means nothing and should mean nothing more than if one prayed in English or Brohi or Makrani or for that matter in Punjabi.
I am sure God Almighty understands all languages very well and more than that he can read what is in your heart and soul. You do not have to say anything.
I hope I have answered your questions so you can proceed with your discussion of the issues that have been raised here.
September 23rd, 2009 at 2:50 pm
To me this article is like I’m reading my mind. I always think about these differences.
I would like to add one more thing;
I am always confused while I read Quran. I feel like I’m not the one this Quran is address to (at least the translation tells me that). It is like the word of God to a ‘MAN’ and not to woman.
If you do some thing well you are getting ‘HOORS’, why would I be interested in hoors, unless I’m not straight.
Or make it this way; If I and my husband are going to heaven and he is getting 70 beautiful women then what I’m supposed to do. How’s that going to work?
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
@Shimatoree
The first point…
“So in your opinion there is no difference between Abu Bakr SiddiqRA, Umer Bin KhattabRA, Ali Ibne Talib RA and todays arabs…. I wonder people would buy that either….”
came as a response to..
“We are taught that when Islam spread initially by invasion of Iran , Central Asia, North Africa and the Indian Subcontinent by the Arab Muslim armies that those guys were real gentlemen interested in spreading justice, equality and the word of God after all the killing had stopped on the field of battle.
Would any honest thinking person who has come across the Arabs of to day would buy that?”
Your second point is an assumption with due respect… An oppressor is an oppressor… he wouldnt care whether the oppressed one is Arab or Non Arab… in the same way Mr. Haqqani and Zardari wouldnt care whether the person being killed by a drone attack or army shelling is a pukhtoon, punajabi, baluch or sindhi or whoever…
Your third point… Arab and Non-Arab… The Prophet SAW had proclaimed that No Arab is superior than non Arab than tying this to Islam is زیادتی۔۔
Your fourth point… I would have preferred to have the response from the writer rather than you…. as i was commenting upon his/her piece…Isnt it our mindset that if our cricketer cant speak English we make fun of him? My response is a response to whatever the writer has written… I dont want to go into rhetoric with somebody else upon that…
I strongly believe that if we are to act as an ummah we are supposed to know Arabic… the way we know English…not as a replacement of our own language..
Your fifth/sixth points… If somebody doesnt feel like following Islam the way Allah tells us to ….. Not the Mullah….he can walk away… nobody is forcing him to adhere to the principles…
September 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
@shandana.
Long time ‘no-hear’ from you? Would U be kind enough to at least answer my repeated e-mails, sent 2 U over period of a few months, asking U about Ur welfare, which went unanswered?
September 23rd, 2009 at 5:28 pm
There has been a lot of comment and discussion on the subject of Fundamentalism, Wahabism, True Islamic way and everything has been mixed up in the term terrorism.
Some blame this on the Afghan War with the Soviet Union and the promotion of Islamic Values during the Zia regime.
My own view is a bit different. This is a problem of acquisition of POWER through acquired Legitimacy either due ot or in times of Colonial Invasions. Some people joined the Russians just like Karzai has joined up with the Americans. Did some people join up with the invading Muslim Arabs in those times. Of course they did.
No one denies the brutalities of the Russians in Afghanistan.
No one denies the brutalities of the Indian Soldiers in Kashmir.
And no one denies the brutality of the Americans and the British in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Then how is it that when a mere question is raised about the possible brutalities of the Muslim Invasion 1400 years ago- everybody gets into a TIZZEE.
Are we supposed to believe that the Muslims invasion armies were a bunch of ninnes without any SWORDS and without any lances and were merely interested in making all the Zorastrians and Hindus and Buddhists into good Muslims.
Let us be honest and try to examine the situation in an objective manner.
Let us try to look at it from the point of view of those that were on the recieving end.
Look at what actually did happen.
Wars were fought .
People were killed.
Lands were occupied and confiscated.
Women and Children were enslaved . (And by the way enslavement was LEGAL and allowed.)
Anyone and everyone knows that in Pakistan everyone names their child with an Arabic name. You know where it came from. You guessed it right. It is one more proof of the colonisation of our lands by the Arabs.
Why does everyone claim to be a SAYED ?
Legitimacy and claim of superiuority through cooked pedigree !
The excuse is given that there were bad people who did bad things and that they were not following the edicts of Islam.
But by the same token the same people who say that also claim great pride for the great Islamic period of the times.
My point is that GENETICS breeds true.
Today’s Muslim Arab Rulers in the Arab countries are corrupt usurpers as they are in Pakistan-( democratically elected)-.
That is not to say that Muslims in the times of the Prophet(PBUH) and Khulfa e Rashideen were like these guys. Some were and some were not
But the question does arise that were all of the guys in those armies pristine models of human and compassionate behaviour.
Any student of human nature would have to say NO.
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:34 pm
@shimatoree
I acknowledge your point of view…
As a student of human nature you would recognize that humans follow the dominant nations… and try to ape them… whether its Arabs.. Americans and even Indians.. who have been dominating over us with the help of media….for quite some long time… but there is another factor… love for the Prophet SAW and his companions… not the dominance only…
So keeping that in view… it is not surprising..that people still like to keep arabic names… I hope i woudnt be alive when people start naming their children as “Bill”, :Obama” “Indra” and “John” in Pakistan…
while unfortunately casts like “syed” is not the only one… there are Rajputs, Sheikhs, Arain, and many others who do not have the arabic origins…. many have the Indian origins…
I never said that everybody was an angel in Early Islamic times… Infact The Real Muslim empire’s downfall started with the death of Umer Farooq RA….. and the rest of the Two Caliphs died tried to saving that particular system…
when the Khilafa turned into Malookiat (Kingship) then everything was according to the King’s understanding of Islam… whether its Karbala… Stoning of Kaba, Invasions…… or whatever… but everyone there was not bad as depicted… they were Muslim armies… comprising of Humans who are liable to err…
September 24th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Nida E Saher
The purpose is to learn to look at things as they really were and not in a sanitized cleansed version that is the norm in Pakistan where history is taught as a subject which is washed and coloured to make all the Muslims look as Angels which is not accurate and is dishonest to say the least.
We complain about those educated in the madrassahs as to their tubular vision but the rest of us are also educated-(if it can be called that) in a very biased manner.
If we are to grow and evolve as a nation- HONESTY is the first requirement.
And it must start with the REAL history of Muslims not the cooked version put forth by the self styled guardians of religion.
September 24th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Shimatoree…
How will you bring the people together on a REAL version who cant otherwise agree on ONE MOON?????
September 24th, 2009 at 11:32 am
sorry about the wrong first post and can you please delete my post above.
I get all my religious information from TV shows by Amir Liyaqat Ali and read tafseer’s by maududi. Why did you have to write this excellent article? What is the use of reading history books and learning from the past? I am an ignorant barbarian person who likes to believe in myths packaged as religion. Saudi Arabia has spent over 100 billion US dollars educating me with “true Islam”. Why can’t we keep it simple and uncomplicated? Let’s have some soothing fairy tales until we die and go to heaven. This world is temporary so why waste our energy educating ourselves. Why think about anything when we have scholars with big mosques and tons of money telling us how to live our lives. I am certain that everything that has been written by certain historian’s is the ultimate truth. We don’t need any more investigating. Why change perfection? So you read a few history books or a lot as obvious by your post but I don’t have to read anything because I don’t like to read books. I don’t have a developed brain that can process this information. Every time I look up the definition of critical thinking I feel sleepy. I am a product of a tribal barbarian society and thinking is something that is reserved for civilized people. I say we should ban thinking and just take orders from pious authorities.
September 24th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Then again there is nothing to worry about. Thinking of any kind has already been banned since centuries. The education I and others like me get is sanitized very carefully. It greatly helps me believe all the official history and planted stories. Let’s keep our imam muzbooth and surely victory will be ours again. We don’t need to do anything differently.
September 24th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Nida E Sehar
In ref: to the Moon problem that you mention-
There is a word in English called ” PRIORITIES” .
The whole issue thatI have been trying to harp on is related to that. Let us examine it a bit in our case-
1. Why is praying 5 times pushed so much and insisted upon. I have been told many times that I am NOT a Muslim because I do not pray regularly in the Mosque as it is REQUIRED !
Does God not know what is in your heart ?
Does God not know your good or evil deeds ?
Does God not know everything at all times ?
If the emphasis had been on honest living instead- well we would have society of people not praying but less corrupt- what we have in fact are shopkeepers who run to the mosque to pray-( FARZ) and run back to lie and cheat in their shops.
2. If the priority was on intellectual honesty and critical analysis rather than cramming the Quran by ROTE like a parrot- would’nt you think we would be better human beings today.
The disagreement on the Moon or the I’d is immaterial and has little to do with things of importance.
But the so-called leaders-( politicians)- and the self proclaimed professors of Religion- what would they have to talk about ? You suppose that they would discuss Socrates ,Plato or some such thinkers ? I don’t think so.
The comment that Pakistanis must agree on I’d on one day is also of no importance except to TV anchors etc. Let them disagree. So what.
We should worry a lot more about the content of their character-(Rev. Martin Luther King) than about when they have I’d or not.
We should simply accept that people wish to do what they wish to do when they wish to do it. What is the problem with that as long as it does not disturb the law and order or raise the price of sugar and atta or to load shedding.
If I had been a dictator- here is what I would do at once-
EDICTS OF SHIMATOREE-
Ha Ha Ha.
September 24th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
An interesting post. I have strong disagreement with some of your arguments. Ignore the rambling nature of my thoughts (pressed for time etc…)
I think you are wrong in your assertion that Arabic was imposed on the conquered peoples as a tool of imperialism. There is strong historical evidence against it in Iran, Egypt and even Syria. Arabic did not replace the native Syriac tongue well into the 9th century. Egypt spoke Coptic till the 10th century. Sindh never changed its language even though it produced many Arabic poets. The languages of Egypt, Syria and Iraq were replaced gradually and without pressure. Foremost reason for language replacement was the context of Empire: need for a lingua franca, a common language needed for commerce and trade. The second reason was the intellectual ferment that occurred during the Golden Age of Islam that made Arabic the language of science, poetry, art and administration. Those who wanted to rise in society had to learn it because their own native languages did not provide them these avenues of advancement. Did Arabic have this advantage solely because of imperial power? Partially yes, but completely? No.
Arabic only became the language of art and science because of the intellectual flowering and boom of creativity that happened during the Abbasids. The Golden Age of Islam under the Abbasid rulers like Haroon and Mamoon ur Rasheed was what caused Arabic to replace Coptic, Syriac and other lanuages. It was a slow and gradual process caused by forces of economics, academic discourse and administrative reform.
Hardly something you can blame Islam for.
Get the true benevolent picture of the Muslim Arab colonization of the non-Arab lands. Let us also take example of Music, literature and poetry of the indigenous people. Music as we know WAS forbidden. So what happened to the musicians? Well they had to destroy their musical instruments or hide them where they could not be found.
I suspect your notions of Pakhtun racial spirit are behind this idea of “Muslim Arab colonization of the non-Arab lands”. How was music banned, and when? The Umayyad Caliphs, coming directly after the Rashidun Caliphate, were great patrons of culture and music. Arab musicians combined Persian musical theory with Indian and Greek. Al-Kindi writing in 800s was the pioneer of Arabic music theory.
Music was not banned. Islam was not an enemy of joy and happiness then, as it is portrayed now.
Since the official language was Arabic – immediately the society was divided into the elite who spoke Arabic and the not so elite who did not.
Of course the non- Arabic speakers could not read or understand the Holy book.
Well that is how central administrations work. Hasn’t the adoption of Urdu done the same thing in the beginning days of Pakistan with Muhajir advancement? Hasn’t the wholesale adoption of Urdu by educated Punjabis helped them? Hasn’t the adoption of Urdu in Punjab and NWFP (people like Faiz and Ahmad Faraz respectively) led to a more cohesive national polity, at least on some level? A central language brings people together and the resulting cultural fusion helps mutual understanding and makes government better.
That is the purpose Arabic served.
Therefore they did not know what the Holy book said. Well, “ you can ONLY read the Quran and offer your prayers in the Holy language –you guessed it was Arabic.
Religious ceremonies of every language are held in the liturgical language. Sanskrit for Hindus, Latin for Christians and Arabic for Muslims.
Yes, language is the repository of historical memory of a people. And yes, language replacement results in the people being cut off from their past.
I fail to understand your argument. Are you resentful that it happened? What should be done now once the realization sinks in? A realization of the ‘Arabic imperial project’, as you see it, should resurrect the dormant racial spirit of Pakhtun/Persian/Egyptian people?
If they start seeing Arabic language and Islam as tools of an imperial project, should they reconstruct their identities on the pre-Islamic past? Where should they start? What is the indigenous identity of Pakhtun people, before they were forcibly Islamized? Is it Hindu from the Hindu Shahi period? Is it Buddhist from the Gandhara period? Is it Jewish from the fabricated history of the lost tribes? Or is it one undying, eternal, Pakhtun spirit that manifested itself in various garbs (Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim), and that undying ethnic identity needs to be cleansed of Islam?
Questions. Questions.
1.What exactly is the need for having so many mosques?
In my opinion, there are two main reasons for this phenomenon within Pakistan: 1) Employment for the batches of unemployable clones from the Madrasses, 2) Acquisition of political and financial power through encroachment.
Young people with only religious education are unemployable in the normal economy. They cannot work as doctors or engineers. Their only recourse is to start their own mosques. They start mosques like they open a shop. A very gratifying expression in Urdu which I love calls it the 1 ½ eent ki masjid.
Mosque building is an industry in Pakistan. Before the Ayub era, it used to be more in the purview of the Auqaf ministry. Zia kind of privatized them and now the molvis work as a perfect analogy of the Military-Industrial complex = Mosque-Real Estate complex for the land-mafia.
The rest of your points about loud speakers, four wives, Halal meat, Hajj and population explosion are purely rational.
Why need loud speakers? Because the Mullah needs to expand his sphere of business. It’s unregulated marketing gone amok. Very modern advertising: Buy our product because it will make you happier. If you don’t buy our product, be prepared for the following adverse circumstances [etc etc]. Buy our product because it defines you as X, against the losers who buy Y. In any case, buying our product will massage your ego and you will prove to yourself that you are the most pious, god loving, bestest human possible. This offer is valid only for a limited period of time.
Why insist on explaining away the 4 wives issue? Because the pious and simple Muslim can only insist on quoting the verses about equality for the 4 wives, never insist on actually enforcing this equality. He will never take a stand against spousal abuse. He will never stand with the vulnerable and the weak. He will only come back impotently with pious recitation of Quran and Hadith (which he himself does not follow) and insist that you stop raising the issue, please. Ansar Abbasi’s statement against those who were condemning the Swat flogging video is a perfect microcosm of this blind spot. I suggest you look it up, if you haven’t already. His whole focus during that interview was not on the girl being flogged, only on those who were calling the act barbaric. Intellectual bankruptcy and moral hypocrisy at its best.
Why zabeeha halal meat and hajj? You are right, its all good business. Instead of spending the money on education and health for the poor, the corrupt rich prefer to keep a false veneer of religious piety through Hijab and Hajj. Is it more profane in the eyes of God that a child dies of hunger and disease, or the presence of a woman in a detergent commercial?
We all know the answer to that.
[end transmission]
September 24th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
umertahir
You know the rules on this blog
September 24th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
@shima
Will come to your comment tomorrow… as i have work to do before the last bus leaves…. otherwise i ll have to walk in the rain… …
in the mean time… could you please educate me about the rules…
September 24th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Nida e Sehar
The rules are very simple.
1. No bad language like abuses or profanities or name calling . I will DELETE as soon as I see it.
2. Everyone must stay on TOPIC-( within reason)- as the topics being brought forth are very serious matters.
3. No moderation before publishing.
4. Editing – if the comment is otherwise good and to the point except for one word or one sentence where bad language is used- then selective surgery-( delete) will be used to clean the matter up.
5. Only English is permitted.
NO URDU script or URDU in Roman.
No other languages.
No exception.
September 25th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Hmmmmmm…Only English is permitted…….
well….. you are the boss…
September 26th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
I would better let you deal with Mbokhari first…
September 27th, 2009 at 6:44 am
You made a lot of claims but with very little evidence or no evidence and then you paint everyone with the same paint brush and with the same paint. I mean if one individual or group of individuals did something wrong then you assumed that all are the same. I mean Mulovis, Arabs and non-Arabs, Arabic,mosques, Madrisas etc. How many people have four wives in Pakistan.Permitting does not mean that you have to have 4 wives. I mean if one molvi said something wrong then all are wrong. Hajj is Fard only one time in a life time only who can afford. There are a lot of examples in the history that people postponed their Hajjs in oredr to help needy people. You need to do some research and not just assumptions or perceptions. I know now a days Hajj becomes like a fun trip but still it depends on certain people.
Also the slaughtering the animals is not just a ritual. It is to provide the food to the poor who might never had eaten meat in months or a year.
The problem is not Islam the problem is us. We want to practice Islam according to our own comfort. On the top we donot put our own effort to learn Islam and let the so-called molvis to interpret Islam for us. I tell you frankly most of the Muslims donot even know the basics of Islam. A person has beard and wear shilwar qameez we call him molvi and think that he is the scholar of Islam. Most of us use Islam for our worldly benefits in different ways.
September 27th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Babu from USA
The author of this essay will not comment.
But I will try to deal with some of what you have said.
” The problem is not Islam- it is us.”
When you promote a system-(Islam)- to be the prescribed way of life- then if the problems that the system is supposed to deal with are not dealt with- you can simply blame it on those that are claiming to be followers of Islam.
I find it difficult to accept.
If the Muslims do not know the basics of Islam(as you say) then they should not be called Muslims-( 1 1/2 billion of them).
About 2 million people go for Haj. They stay in Saudi Arabia for a month or so.
What do they do while they are there ?
Pray and recite the Quran.
When they are paying big dollars to the hotels, the taxis, the restaurants etc- are they thinking of those destitute poor Muslims back home who cannot get the Atta to make bread ?
No they do not. That is something that is far from their minds.
Your comment “that the author has made lots of claims with no evidence”.
All I will say is that your comment is inaccurate and without merit . The evidence is right there in your face.
All you have to do is to have an op mind.
What this author ( I think) is trying to bring forth is to make everyone think and look at how bad things really are.
Just repeating the slogan” it is not Islam’s fault” is unlikely to be of help.
The whole system is broken down and a complete overhaul is needed which is unlikely due to the entrenched religious and political interests.
As for Pakistan- with the likes of Zardari and Nawaz Shareef and Musharraf on top – the future is utterly hopeless and disaster is looming.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:45 am
You have an answer in your own comment. You agree like others that Zardari, NS and MUSH etc. do not represent the majority of pakistani people. The same we as muslims (majority of us) donot represent Islam. You cannot see the islamic society in bits and pieces. I mean the things are related to each other. Your problem is with the money spent on hajj and not on the poor people, so you want people to stop performing the Hajj. But this will not solve the problem. Now let me explain you.
There are five pillars in islam.
First is the kalma. We all do that to be a Muslim.
Second is salah. Now tell me how many people pray 5 times a day. lets make a wilg guess 10 %.
The third pillar is zakat. Now let me ask you that how many Muslims in pakistan are paying zakat.They will be even less than people are praying salah. But for assumption make it 50 % again.Now 50 % are not paying their dues.
I can tell you that if rich people of Peshawar, quetta, islamabad, lahore and karachi pay their dues fully we can eradicate poverty in Pakistan.
I hope you got the point if not then I can explain you more in detail. Islam is not just a slogan but a way of life and I can prove you. Inshah Allah.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:10 am
I think you are wrong in your assertion that Arabic was imposed on the conquered peoples as a tool of imperialism. There is strong historical evidence against it in Iran, Egypt and even Syria.
There is a strong historical evidence of brutal oppression of native populations by Islamic invading armies in Iran, Egypt, Syria, North Africa, Spain, India etc to name a few. The invading Muslims met fierce resistance in all places and had to color the ground red with blood to occupy these places. If there is any doubt towards this claim than studying these conquests would remove it.
The languages of Egypt, Syria and Iraq were replaced gradually and without pressure. Foremost reason for language replacement was the context of Empire: need for a lingua franca, a common language needed for commerce and trade. The second reason was the intellectual ferment that occurred during the Golden Age of Islam that made Arabic the language of science, poetry, art and administration. Those who wanted to rise in society had to learn it because their own native languages did not provide them these avenues of advancement. Did Arabic have this advantage solely because of imperial power? Partially yes, but completely? No.
23. A nation that has been defeated and come under
the rule of another nation will quickly perish.
The 136 reason for this may possibly lie in the apathy that comes over people when they lose control of their own affairs and, through enslavement, become the instrument of others and dependent upon them. Hope diminishes and weakens. Now, propagation and an increase in civilization (population) take place only as the result of strong hope and of the energy that hope creates in the animal powers (of man). When hope and the things it stimulates are gone through apathy, and when group feeling has disappeared under the impact of defeat, civilization decreases and business and other activities stop. With their strength dwindling under the impact of defeat, people become unable to defend themselves. They become the victims of anyone who tries to dominate them, and a prey to anyone who has the appetite. It makes no difference whether they have already reached the limit of their royal authority or not.
Here, we possibly learn another secret, namely, that man is a natural leader by virtue of the fact that he has been made a representative (of God on earth). When a leader is deprived of his leadership and prevented from exercising all his powers, he becomes apathetic, even down to such matters as food and drink. This is in the human character. A similar observation may be made with regard to beasts of prey. They do not cohabit when they are in human captivity. The group that has lost control of its own affairs thus continues to weaken and to disintegrate until it perishes. Duration be longs to God alone.
This may be illustrated by the Persian nation. In the past, the Persians filled the world with their great numbers. When their military force was annihilated in the days of the Arabs, they were still very numerous. It is said that Sa’d (b. Abi Waqqas) counted (the population) beyond Ctesiphon. It numbered 137,000 (individuals), with 37,000 heads of families. But when the Persians came under the rule of the Arabs and were made subject to (oppression by) force, they lasted only a short while and were wiped out as if they had never been. One should not think that this was the result of some (specific) persecution or aggression perpetrated against them. The rule of Islam is known for its justice. Such (disintegration as befell the Persians) is in human nature. It happens when people lose control of their own affairs and become the in¬strument of someone else.
Therefore, the Negro nations are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because (Negroes) have little (that is essentially) human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated.137
Or,138 there are those who by accepting slavery hope to obtain high rank or to get money or power. This was the case with the Turks in the East, and with the Galician infidels and European Christians in Spain. Such people are customarily claimed by the dynasty for itself. Thus, they are not ashamed to be slaves, because they hope to be chosen for high position by the dynasty. And God knows better.
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter2/Ch_2_23.htm
22. The vanquished always want to imitate the victor
in his distinctive mark(s), his dress, his occupation,
and all his other conditions and customs.
The 133 reason for this is that the soul always sees perfection in the person who is superior to it and to whom it is subservient. It considers him perfect, either because the respect it has for him impresses it, or because it erroneously assumes that its own subservience to him is not due to the nature of defeat but to the perfection of the victor. If that erroneous assumption fixes itself in the soul, it becomes a firm belief. The soul, then, adopts all the manners of the victor and assimilates itself to him. This, then, is imitation.
Or, the soul may possibly think that the superiority of the victor is not the result of his group feeling or great fortitude, but of his customs and manners. This also would be an erroneous concept of superiority, and (the consequence) would be the same as in the former case.
Therefore, the vanquished can always be observed to assimilate themselves to the victor in the use and style of dress, mounts, and weapons, indeed, in everything.
In this connection, one may compare how children constantly imitate their fathers. They do that only because they see perfection in them. One may also compare how almost everywhere people are dominated (in the matter of fashion) by the dress of the militia and the government forces, because they are ruled by them.
This goes so far that a nation dominated by another, neighboring nation will show a great deal of assimilation and imitation. At this time, this is the case in Spain. The Spaniards are found to assimilate themselves to the Galician nations in their dress, their emblems, and most of their customs and conditions. This goes so far that they even draw pictures on the walls and (have them) in buildings and houses. The intelligent observer will draw from this the conclusion that it is a sign of domination (by others). God has the power to command.134
In this light, one should understand the secret of the saying, “The common people follow the religion of the ruler.” 135 (This saying) belongs to the subject under discussion. The ruler dominates those under him. His subjects imitate him, because they see perfection in him, exactly as children imitate their parents, or students their teachers.
God is wise and knowing.
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter2/Ch_2_22.htm
In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force. (The Muqaddimah: an Introduction to History (abridged), trans. Franz Rosenthal, Princeton UP, 1967, p.183)
The first (Muslim) victory over them and the European Christians (in the Maghrib) was of no avail. They continued to rebel and apostatized time after time. The Muslims massacred many of them. After the Muslim religion had been established among them, they went on revolting and seceding, and they adopted dissident religious opinions many times. They remained disobedient and unmanageable . . . . Therefore, it has taken the Arabs a long time to establish their dynasty in the . . . Maghrib. (p. 131)
September 28th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Arabic only became the language of art and science because of the intellectual flowering and boom of creativity that happened during the Abbasids. The Golden Age of Islam under the Abbasid rulers like Haroon and Mamoon ur Rasheed was what caused Arabic to replace Coptic, Syriac and other lanuages. It was a slow and gradual process caused by forces of economics, academic discourse and administrative reform.
Arabic and English became the dominant language due to Linguistic imperialism. Linguistic imperialism, or language imperialism, “involves the transfer of a dominant language to other peoples. The transfer is essentially a demonstration of power—traditionally, military power but also, in the modern world, economic power—and aspects of the dominant culture are usually transferred along with the language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_imperialism
A generation ago, Waheed Murad would start his day with cornflakes and an “Aadaab Ammi.” The indigenous greeting of aadaab is fast going the way of the dodo, having given way to the tongue-twisting assalam-alaikum. The Persian khuda is another casualty of the war on Urdu; even Abbu has taken to signing off with allah hafiz instead of the possibly pre-Islamic khuda hafiz. Pakistani Arabists are promoting wassalam as the next daisy cutter against Urdu. What’s next, allah-o-akbar chants at cricket matches? Wait, we already have those! How about a constitutional amendment to replace shukria with shukran? Our Majlis-e-Shoora—the word “Parliament” makes Arabic groupies itch—is just the sovereign body for the job. Maybe Ameer-ul-Momineen Musharraf should go for an enlightened clean sweep and declare Arabic the national language, something the Aga Khan’s daddy wanted fifty years ago.
http://www.chowk.com/articles/9783
September 28th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
lota6177 – your comment somehow got placed in pending.
Here it is.
Submitted on 2009/09/28 at 7:32am
Arabic only became the language of art and science because of the intellectual flowering and boom of creativity that happened during the Abbasids. The Golden Age of Islam under the Abbasid rulers like Haroon and Mamoon ur Rasheed was what caused Arabic to replace Coptic, Syriac and other lanuages. It was a slow and gradual process caused by forces of economics, academic discourse and administrative reform.
Arabic and English became the dominant language due to Linguistic imperialism. Linguistic imperialism, or language imperialism, “involves the transfer of a dominant language to other peoples. The transfer is essentially a demonstration of power—traditionally, military power but also, in the modern world, economic power—and aspects of the dominant culture are usually transferred along with the language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_imperialism
A generation ago, Waheed Murad would start his day with cornflakes and an “Aadaab Ammi.” The indigenous greeting of aadaab is fast going the way of the dodo, having given way to the tongue-twisting assalam-alaikum. The Persian khuda is another casualty of the war on Urdu; even Abbu has taken to signing off with allah hafiz instead of the possibly pre-Islamic khuda hafiz. Pakistani Arabists are promoting wassalam as the next daisy cutter against Urdu. What’s next, allah-o-akbar chants at cricket matches? Wait, we already have those! How about a constitutional amendment to replace shukria with shukran? Our Majlis-e-Shoora—the word “Parliament” makes Arabic groupies itch—is just the sovereign body for the job. Maybe Ameer-ul-Momineen Musharraf should go for an enlightened clean sweep and declare Arabic the national language, something the Aga Khan’s daddy wanted fifty years ago.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
lota6177- Your 2nd comment is here. I am sorry for the technical glitch.
Submitted on 2009/09/28 at 7:10am
I think you are wrong in your assertion that Arabic was imposed on the conquered peoples as a tool of imperialism. There is strong historical evidence against it in Iran, Egypt and even Syria.
There is a strong historical evidence of brutal oppression of native populations by Islamic invading armies in Iran, Egypt, Syria, North Africa, Spain, India etc to name a few. The invading Muslims met fierce resistance in all places and had to color the ground red with blood to occupy these places. If there is any doubt towards this claim than studying these conquests would remove it.
The languages of Egypt, Syria and Iraq were replaced gradually and without pressure. Foremost reason for language replacement was the context of Empire: need for a lingua franca, a common language needed for commerce and trade. The second reason was the intellectual ferment that occurred during the Golden Age of Islam that made Arabic the language of science, poetry, art and administration. Those who wanted to rise in society had to learn it because their own native languages did not provide them these avenues of advancement. Did Arabic have this advantage solely because of imperial power? Partially yes, but completely? No.
23. A nation that has been defeated and come under
the rule of another nation will quickly perish.
The 136 reason for this may possibly lie in the apathy that comes over people when they lose control of their own affairs and, through enslavement, become the instrument of others and dependent upon them. Hope diminishes and weakens. Now, propagation and an increase in civilization (population) take place only as the result of strong hope and of the energy that hope creates in the animal powers (of man). When hope and the things it stimulates are gone through apathy, and when group feeling has disappeared under the impact of defeat, civilization decreases and business and other activities stop. With their strength dwindling under the impact of defeat, people become unable to defend themselves. They become the victims of anyone who tries to dominate them, and a prey to anyone who has the appetite. It makes no difference whether they have already reached the limit of their royal authority or not.
Here, we possibly learn another secret, namely, that man is a natural leader by virtue of the fact that he has been made a representative (of God on earth). When a leader is deprived of his leadership and prevented from exercising all his powers, he becomes apathetic, even down to such matters as food and drink. This is in the human character. A similar observation may be made with regard to beasts of prey. They do not cohabit when they are in human captivity. The group that has lost control of its own affairs thus continues to weaken and to disintegrate until it perishes. Duration be longs to God alone.
This may be illustrated by the Persian nation. In the past, the Persians filled the world with their great numbers. When their military force was annihilated in the days of the Arabs, they were still very numerous. It is said that Sa’d (b. Abi Waqqas) counted (the population) beyond Ctesiphon. It numbered 137,000 (individuals), with 37,000 heads of families. But when the Persians came under the rule of the Arabs and were made subject to (oppression by) force, they lasted only a short while and were wiped out as if they had never been. One should not think that this was the result of some (specific) persecution or aggression perpetrated against them. The rule of Islam is known for its justice. Such (disintegration as befell the Persians) is in human nature. It happens when people lose control of their own affairs and become the in¬strument of someone else.
Therefore, the Negro nations are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because (Negroes) have little (that is essentially) human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated.137
Or,138 there are those who by accepting slavery hope to obtain high rank or to get money or power. This was the case with the Turks in the East, and with the Galician infidels and European Christians in Spain. Such people are customarily claimed by the dynasty for itself. Thus, they are not ashamed to be slaves, because they hope to be chosen for high position by the dynasty. And God knows better.
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter2/Ch_2_23.htm
22. The vanquished always want to imitate the victor
in his distinctive mark(s), his dress, his occupation,
and all his other conditions and customs.
The 133 reason for this is that the soul always sees perfection in the person who is superior to it and to whom it is subservient. It considers him perfect, either because the respect it has for him impresses it, or because it erroneously assumes that its own subservience to him is not due to the nature of defeat but to the perfection of the victor. If that erroneous assumption fixes itself in the soul, it becomes a firm belief. The soul, then, adopts all the manners of the victor and assimilates itself to him. This, then, is imitation.
Or, the soul may possibly think that the superiority of the victor is not the result of his group feeling or great fortitude, but of his customs and manners. This also would be an erroneous concept of superiority, and (the consequence) would be the same as in the former case.
Therefore, the vanquished can always be observed to assimilate themselves to the victor in the use and style of dress, mounts, and weapons, indeed, in everything.
In this connection, one may compare how children constantly imitate their fathers. They do that only because they see perfection in them. One may also compare how almost everywhere people are dominated (in the matter of fashion) by the dress of the militia and the government forces, because they are ruled by them.
This goes so far that a nation dominated by another, neighboring nation will show a great deal of assimilation and imitation. At this time, this is the case in Spain. The Spaniards are found to assimilate themselves to the Galician nations in their dress, their emblems, and most of their customs and conditions. This goes so far that they even draw pictures on the walls and (have them) in buildings and houses. The intelligent observer will draw from this the conclusion that it is a sign of domination (by others). God has the power to command.134
In this light, one should understand the secret of the saying, “The common people follow the religion of the ruler.” 135 (This saying) belongs to the subject under discussion. The ruler dominates those under him. His subjects imitate him, because they see perfection in him, exactly as children imitate their parents, or students their teachers.
God is wise and knowing.
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/Chapter2/Ch_2_22.htm
In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force. (The Muqaddimah: an Introduction to History (abridged), trans. Franz Rosenthal, Princeton UP, 1967, p.183)
The first (Muslim) victory over them and the European Christians (in the Maghrib) was of no avail. They continued to rebel and apostatized time after time. The Muslims massacred many of them. After the Muslim religion had been established among them, they went on revolting and seceding, and they adopted dissident religious opinions many times. They remained disobedient and unmanageable . . . . Therefore, it has taken the Arabs a long time to establish their dynasty in the . . . Maghrib. (p. 131)
September 28th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
shimatoree
This link to the chowk article about Linguistic Imperialism that I quoted in my post didn’t make so I am posting it again.
http://www.chowk.com/articles/9783
September 29th, 2009 at 12:03 am
ibn khaldun THE MUQADDIMAH
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/Muqaddimah/index.htm
My quotes are from this book and there are other good chapters that explain Arab imperialism in this book.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
@shimatoree
I really like the gist of your article – will agree with mb that it’s slightly flawed from a factual perspective – but i think everybody should understand and appreciate the point you are making – vis a vis the various linguistic and cultural ‘chappatis’ we carry on our south asian shoulders..
September 30th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
gv
all the questions that have been raised here are talked about in every household in Pakistan and other Non- Arabic speaking countries. The racist and discriminatory treatment dished out to those Muslims-( from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Afghanistan etc ) that have to work in the Arab countries have made this whole issue of great importance to all of us-( or at least should be).
To be honest I am a bit disappointed with the number-
( but not the QUALITY)- of comments on this topic here so far.
I had expected to be bombarded by comments in both directions.
But thanks anyway.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Dildar
English only PLEASE. That is the rule.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
@shimatoree
i’m pretty surprised as well at the number of comments though i think it may have something to do with the fact that you replaced it with your islamic divorce piece for a while in the middle.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:01 am
@nida e sehr
gr8 response, cool headed!!!